Wednesday, March 14, 2007

Just Your Typical Conversation with a Liberal

Ugh!!! It's just so frustrating.

I just had another one of those typical conversations with a Liberal. She was responding to something I said in a recent article in which I argued that hatred of Christianity comes from the Modern Liberals' fear of that which is good, right and successful.

Specifically my evidence that Bill Maher's attack on religion as "the antithesis of science" is nothing but mindless hatred, debunked every time someone drives past Cedar Sinai Hospital, Long Island Jewish Medical Center and the Presbyterian Hospital at Columbia University.

The first "point" she made was that these were just the names of buildings and proved nothing. She then went on to argue that all religions are the same and that good Christians would also make good Moslems, etc because they're good.

She then went on to argue that it is not religion that is important but "spirituality."

What do all of these arguments have in common? They argue for indiscriminateness. A name is just a name with no meaning attached, the different tenets of different religions are of no difference and spirituality is an "individual pursuit," with no rules or regulations.

Modern Liberalism is ALL about indiscriminateness.

Then, when it was my turn to talk guess what this open-minded Liberal did? She shouted "I don't want to talk about it" and hung up the phone.

Ugh, sometimes it is SOOOO frustrating.


dana said...

i just watched your heritage foundation speech on youtube


you are one of the most articulate voices on this subject i ever heard

i hope your light blogging is a result of you being busy on your book which i can't wait to buy and read

please write a movie, your voice needs to be heard

why aren't any rich conservative philanthropists just funding movies?

im rambling because your speech actually raised my heart rate

keep up the great work!

Anonymous said...

Evan, I, too, just watched your speech at the Heritage.

Thank you for providing one of the most cogent and well-articulated explanations for the 'cultural-divide' that I've ever heard. There was nary a word that didn't resonate as truthful to that element within us all (who kept thinking past 5 years old) that recognizes truth when spoken.

Please keep up the good work. I will be looking for you in the media now.


Anonymous said...

I just saw the video of your speech at Heritage on YouTube. Thank you. You have a new fan. I'll be coming back here.
Doug in Alberta

Craig H said...

Your speech at the Heritage Foundation identified and exposed EXACTLY the symptoms of this dreaded disease. Like you, I too was a liberal from the 70's.

And then I grew up.

Thank you for your tenacity. Never let up.

Anonymous said...

I thought I'd be original and tell you how good your Heritage Foundation speech was. It actually was really enlightening, and I'm, like, super-smart to begin with, so that's pretty good. I hope you start blogging more often.

Atlantin said...

Just watched your Heritage Foundation Speech. Brilliant, just Brilliant!

Your insights were so novel that I have found the Mp3 file to place into iTunes and archive on an audio CD (lurkers can get the file here).

One point that struck me as I watched the speech on youTube was WHY DOES NOT A "LEADER" ARISE TO TURN THIS AROUND?
Perhaps it just about impossible in a Western Society as we are governed by leaders selected thusly:
1. We elect leaders on the basis of successful marketing though mass media. This requires some combination of pretty faces, excellent speaking skills, celebrity status, wealth, and simple messages.
2. Politicos often appoint to high office on the basis of successful work in their campaigns, such as fundraising, creating slogans, or assembling a crowd at a suburban mall on a Saturday morning.
3. Politicos often appoint professionals (i.e., experts) to high office after a career based on personal management: good networking and avoiding mistakes. Or they appoint academics, which mean good networking with no possibility of making decisions and thereby making mistakes.
An apparatus built with such people can accomplish little, and might be incapable of rational planning or competent execution. This kind of official apparatus worked for American during the 19th century era, the era of small government, but repeatedly failed us during the 20th century. The challenges of the 21st century might be even greater, hence the need to either reform our government or change our approach to geo-politics. Source: here

jeremayakovka said...


I just watched the video, too. Ditto most of the previous comments.

Like all former (modern) liberals, your visceral combination of morality and intellect has a particular, stirring force. It's a little bit like that of the Christian Zionist who recently made a splash at AIPAC, and a lot like Oriana Fallaci's prose style.

Robert said...

Mr. Sayet I find it hard to believe that a (assumedly - I haven't done any independent research on it, so I'll just accept your word) well-educated man such as yourself can actually believe the things you say and write. I know this schtick makes you money, but you must understand that you are no better than the people you attack; left-leaning and right-leaning people alike who adopt the sort of attitude you have make the world a worse place to live in, and it's not like it needs to get worse.

IanCroydon said...

I saw your HF speech, truely enlightening, thank you, keep up the good work, we are listening.

Your point made here is typical of what Modern Liberals think, that liberalism suddenly spontaneously happens when good people come together, they refuse to acknowledge that it is in fact the western Judeo-Christian culture that lead to the enlightenment and to liberalism, and the fact that over the centuries, no other culture has evolved into anything resembling the liberal society we see in most western nations.

It is the Modern Liberal's denial of their Christian heritage that causes this, it does not take even half a brain to realise that almost all the primary tenets of Modern Christianity and Modern Liberalism coincide - liberalism can easily be summed up as the Christian creed of "treat others how you wish to be treated".

In Britain, where I live, there is a reason why the nurses in our universal health care system are traditionally called "sister", because the original universal health system was run by the Christian church and the nurses were the nuns.

In British Sign Language for the Deaf, the word for "social worker" imitates the stole of priest, because when BSL was developed, the social welfare system for the poor and disadvantaged was administered by the Christian church and its priests were its welfare officers.

Universal education, a liberal mainstay, was first established in many countries by the Christian church.

What Modern Liberals forget is the primary liberal message; that you don't need to be religious to be a "good person"; to value life over death, to consider all genders, races and classes equally, to ensure everyone has basic rights to health, education and welfare, all the priniciples that modern western liberal nations are built upon.

As You have demonstrated, the Christian principles, the ones that originally shared liberal principles, have been cast aside in the name of "indiscriminateness".

Modern Liberals are ashamed of their Christian parents.

Anonymous said...

Saw your Heritage speech, linked by C&S. Wonderful. Read through all your postings and I'll go with Dana and speculate that you are so damn busy, there's not much time for blogging.

Your comparison of Munich and Flight 93 was dead on. It's probably why I enjoy old westerns and film noir so much more than most of the drivel spewing out of Hollywood these days.

Cao said...

Your speech at the Heritage Foundation was fantastic. To hear you spell it out was a relief, a pleasure, and at the same time, troubling.

What can we do to turn this trend around? We can't even get people to listen because we're 'bigoted racists'.

Mary Paul Stewart said...

You are my hero! Like the others, just heard your Heritage Foundation talk. FANTASTIC! I'll be checking in regularly! I know blogging is incredibly time consuming, so if nothing else, please post links to any articles or any other projects.


Reaps said...

Another one who has just watched your Heritage speech.

Thompson can be President, but you can be his speechwriter, at the very least. Then again, your public speaking ability is outstanding in itself.

..And I'm not even an American.

JohnM said...

Your caller also displayed another modern attitude to religion. They assume it to be on a par with choosing toothpaste from a supermarket. Don't like the toothpaste you bought, then exchange it for a different brand next week. There's no engagement with any ideas beyond a desire to obtain the warm fuzzy feeling that she calls spirituality.

Me said...

Just watched your heritage foundation speech. I, like the above poster Robert, find it hard to believe that you actually believe the things you say. You know these are all strawmen, right? it's like when Ann Coulter completely misstates the law in her columns -- she knows she is lying, because she went to Cornell law school. So too, I think you know that it's pretty absurd to claim to know how everyone who calls themselves a "liberal" or a "Liberal" thinks. It's just as absurd as those people who claim to know how all Muslims think. It's not only impossible in reality, it is also very intellectually dishonest to peddle ideas like this.

I am a liberal, and what I believe in is intellectual honesty, discussion, discourse, to exchange ideas and arrive at some sort of non-partisan truth, with as much input from a variety of people as possible. I believe in critical thinking, empirical evidence, investigation, the scientific method. Maybe you too believe in these things, but you don't really seem to show it.

Anonymous said...

Your conversation describes my life at the job nearly every day.

By the way, I too saw your speech at the Heritage Foundation. All I can say is... God bless you, my friend.

rasqual said...

It's always interesting to see implausible world views collide with the people who hold them -- people who existentially know better than the [ir]rational commitments they've made.

This is nowhere more true than in the case of such notions as the generic value of "spirituality." This just reduces to the speaker defining spirituality as anything they don't find objectionable -- which means that its "spirituality" is a superfluous quality; why not just say that what's important is agreeing with the speaker, is not upsetting the speaker.

A Socratic approach will ask questions, press premises to their conclusions (reductio) and insist upon not only knowing what cannot be denied, but not embracing knowledge which has no warrant; one must know what's compelling and one must actively refuse to gratuitously aver (a utopian habit).

Anonymous said...

Just like everyone else I saw your speech on youtube. It was like a eureka moment for me. Finally someone has deciphered the problem of the Modern Liberal. With each sentence of your speech I was mentally saying "yes, yes that's it!". It's like I had all the puzzle pieces but you showed how they fit together. Just like the many others on here I am a new fan and looking forward to your future works!

Thank you, thank you, thank you!!

Anonymous said...

10:48 AM, 03 30 2007
Dear Evan,
I too, just this morning, watched your excellent dissection of ''LiberalThink'' (or lack thereof) in your Heritage Foundation Speech. THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU.

Question: When, or what cause in your own experience, led you to crystallize these ideas so well?

I had a similar epiphany within the last few years, though not as eloquently stated. Namely that Liberals ( much like Fundamentalist Muslims/Islamists ! ) simply don't ''grow up'' but remain in a state of mental arrested development. They don't think in very mature ways. Think about how immaturely Muslims and Libs respond to things they don't like, like little kids fighting on a playground, hitting, name-calling etc.
I am very proud of you for discovering and then reporting truths that Hollywood Libs, and American leftists generally, cannot even see, muchless acknowledge.
Count me as a new forever fan in the Evan Fan Club! Hope to read a lot more from you in future. GOD Bless you.
pete g
South Carolina

Anonymous said...

I can totally sympathise, lol.

You know I appreciate that you articulate the Liberal mind so well.

I used to think "maybe it just seems that way, maybe they like to hate so they live finding things to hate", but you articulated it well. I mean, people don't TRY to be 'bad' people. Everyone has what they see as a good reason for things, and the more I talk to liberals the more I realize everything you say about them.

My friend was talking while he was working one day - they were discussing abortion. My friend said it's wrong because it's murder. One of the girls said "I don't think abortion is wrong, I've had one" and the expression on her face changed to one of regret and remorse. You could tell she didn't like that she had one.

A few guys said "I don't think it's right but it's not my choice, I shouldn't decide for anyone" referring to voting abortion illegal. This is ridiculous, they know it's wrong yet they support it.

Anonymous said...

Evan, when we heard you speak, we both said: "Exactly".

"We" are a Muslim and a Soviet Russian escapee!

When I arrived in this country from the Soviet Union in the 70's, I was shocked by what I learned later to be "Liberal" blather. The whole exercise of (as one of your commentors put it)"intellectual honesty, discussion, discourse, to exchange ideas and arrive at some sort of non-partisan truth, with as much input from a variety of people as possible. I believe in critical thinking, empirical evidence, investigation, the scientific method." Is just a euphemism for "data mining our way to get the conclusion of moral relativity that we've already decided on". None of the Liberals believed the gulags, the fear, the utter lack of liberty. Nearly 20 years after the collapse of communism? Still believe in it without question! Why did it not succeed? Because of "unfair competition" from America and because America wouldn't let it succeed. Certainly not because it was institutionalized torture of entire populations. See why your speech hit home?

Upon a recent visit to Egypt, we were lectured in the mosques about the "spotless history of Islam" and the need to slay Jews "where we find them". "Israel is 90% of our problem and there will be no peace until we drive it into the sea". But, according to Rosie O'Cowbell and her ilk, these people have been ruthlessly "victimized" by our billions of aid dollars. Sound familiar? The fact is that O'Dumbell would have been executed by these same people if she were unlucky enough to be born in Egypt.

When everything is moral, nothing is moral. When marriage is defined as anything it becomes nothing. But nothing is what communists and Liberals believe in, as you say.

Make no mistake. The Muslims (whether terrorists or passive supporters of terror - most Muslims) practice no moral relativity. they are advocating fascism - a governmental system led by a dictator having complete power, forcibly suppressing opposition and criticism, regimenting all industry, commerce, etc., and emphasizing an aggressive nationalism and often racism.

Is this really morally equivalent?

yonason said...


Yes. I know what you mean. My ex gets further Left the older she gets. Mostly we get along ok, ... EXCEPT after something inspires her to deliver a polemic against what she percieves as my politics, at which point she also starts screeming at me that she "doesn't want to talk about it" when it would otherwise have been my turn to speak.

They are apparently all alike.